by Roberto Rippa<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: What happened when the film came out in Finland?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: They gave it an X rating. So that you cannot watch it if you\u2019re under 18.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: This is the rating usually used for porn…<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Yeah, that\u2019s right! They gave it the same rating as porn.<\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: Drug movies are usually under 16.<\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Yeah, \u201cTrainspotting\u201d was 16 but maybe they saw it as pornography of needles\u2019 injection. There\u2019s injection in the veins and then pleasure coming from that. So maybe they saw it as pornography.<\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: Maybe they felt that Jani\u2019s lifestyle was so inviting that people could have started using drugs themselves.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Which is stupid because this never happens in cinema. Cinema is not a way to invite people to do things, otherwise we wouldn\u2019t have films with killers…
\nWe imagine Finland as a free spirited country. What happened in this case?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: The censorship department that rates films said: \u201cWell, this is a drug-positive film. It depicts drugs use in a positive way\u201d. And obviously the producers wanted the film to be seen by people under 18. Who goes to see movies? This is a huge audience so they were losing money because people 15 to 18 years old couldn\u2019t see the film. So it\u2019s a commercial thing. So they turned it around and said: \u201cThis is an educational film, you cannot take drugs\u201d. That pissed us off because we wanted to tell an individual story, we didn\u2019t want to make a film to say: \u201cLook at this guys, this is where you\u2019ll end up if you take drugs!\u201d. It only deals with people who have drug-related problems. And this is a completely different thing from people using drugs not having drug-related problems. So the film doesn\u2019t really tell anything about drugs in general, it\u2019s a personal story that says that you cannot escape from your issues. Wherever you go, they are going to follow you. Changing yourself is a long and hard work if the need comes from inside.
\nI really hated when they were trying to make it an educational film that says: \u201cNo, don\u2019t take drugs\u201d and all this bullshit.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: When I\u2019ve seen it I didn\u2019t get this. There\u2019s no positive attitudes towards drugs even if there\u2019 s nothing against them. It\u2019s just a personal story and that\u2019s the way to see it. There\u2019s no other way.<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Yeah, drugs are a sensitive subject in Finland. The 60\u2019s never happened in Finland. The hippy thing never happened in Finland, so drugs have always been considered in a bad way. I mean, any drugs. And any drug user is seen in a really bad light, a negative light. So I wanted to show drug users in a human way, with all the different angles. Not only the good sides or the bad but as more tridimensional human beings.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Which is the difficult part for a film. I heard that it took more than five years to shoot this film…<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: The shooting part was really the easiest part of the process. I had my camera and I was part of the group I filmed. I was getting high myself and just filmed for months and months. 90% of the film was shot within 6 months. But then there wasn\u2019t really a story, nothing was planned, everything was just happening. In some days, when I was high on speed I thought: \u201cOk, let\u2019s make a TV series composed by 5 minutes episodes. I mean like YouTube. Some other days I was thinking about making a longer series. The reality changed a lot during the process. Basically I shot and shot and shot and then we started looking at the footage and there were hundreds and hundreds of hours of scenes and we started thinking with him (editor Sadri Cetinkaya) what kind of movie we could have done and it became clear that it was going to be a real movie. It wasn\u2019t clear what kind of puzzle was the right one to make. It took a long time and then we didn\u2019t have any funds of any kind. The organization that gave me the camera in the first place took it away when they saw what we were doing, saying: \u201cYou cannot show this kind of things\u201d. Then the police confiscated some of the tapes and destroyed them. And they also thought that the cameras were stolen. So there were many problems. How can you get funds when you say: \u201cOh, I\u2019ve got this idea\u201d and you\u2019ve got no education in filmmaking? You\u2019ve got no credibility in delivering a real film. The financing system is based so much on being a professional and having an education. Actually I think, after this movie, they are changing the system to make financing possible for smaller projects, which is good.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: And the film was a commercial success in Finland, right?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Yeah, it was really a groundbreaking success.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: How did people react to it?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: We\u2019ve got so many different reactions…I saw the film for the first time here in Locarno, the whole film. We edited at the last minute before its release and after that, after working on it for so many years, I even didn\u2019t wanna see it. So many people saw it like an anti-drug statement, like: \u201cLook at these guys, look at the condition they\u2019re in, just say no to drugs\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: People don\u2019t wanna see beyond this kind of propaganda that was built around this subject. They just wanna see the politically correct reality of this. A production company wanted us to get involved with these anti-drugs organizations and we had to be really strict about not getting involved with them.<\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: I think that what influences the film are the \u201890s funny drug movies, comedy kind of things. It shows that side but also the reality of the world of drug addicts. There are many funny scenes but then again it\u2019s not a funny movie.
\nIt\u2019s kind of a dark comedy. At least it has elements of dark comedy. It\u2019s also against the films that shows drug using in a funny way, glorifying drug use.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: What was the reaction by the guys who appear in the film? Did they realize what could come from you filming them?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: No one of us expected the film to become so huge as it happened in Finland. They\u2019ve all seen the film afterwards and they say they\u2019re all happy with it. I really appreciated the really good sense of humour the guys have. I mean they\u2019re fucked up and say stupid things and it\u2019s something to admire how can they be so proud, so self-confident, not ashamed. When people laugh at themselves, that\u2019s the best thing that can happen. I\u2019m really amazed by their reaction to the movie. A couple of people didn\u2019t like it because they changed their lifestyles so much like working as an accountant, having a proper profession, having children. They didn\u2019t want to be seen so we had to cover their faces, and leave them out of the film. It\u2019s understandable but also sad. It tells how the drug users are systematically driven out of the normal life. One of the aspects of the film is the loneliness of the main character and how there\u2019s no connection between him and the real world. Normal life is a distant dream, a totally disillusional distant dream.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: When I saw the film I was curious about this aspect of the main character. He\u2019s separated, lonely most of the time, but then his dreams are very conventional ones: a small house, a garden, a wife. Dreams that are very distant from his actual life.<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: Jani is a little alone in his own circle. That\u2019s why he wants to get away from it. He has his dreams, in a way.<\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: It\u2019s also that that circle doesn\u2019t offer him what he needs and dreams. But there\u2019s also this character, the one that takes the needles out of the trash can, his role in the movie is the one of a survivor of this culture but Jani is the kind of guy who cannot have a future in that culture, he cannot survive in that culture, he wants a chance. And this guy is the opposite from him. Maybe this character shows he\u2019s stronger and he can handle this kind of harsh drug addict life.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: You got the Critics\u2019 prize one hour ago. Could this change the idea about your film? I mean could it change the government idea about the film?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: We hope so, but realistically speaking I don\u2019t think anything will change from their part. Maybe the journalists…<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Because you\u2019re concerned about your film not being considered as a piece of cinema…<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Oh yeah, because this is the first occasion. It got good reviews in Finland and many people went to see the film but still I sense that this has to do with the topic. It could be all about this sense of pornography so maybe after this festival they will aknowledge it as a proper film. Cause we made a lot of work, we\u2019ve been working years and years to make the best possible movie out of the footage.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Do you think the film will have a distribution outside Finland?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: I guess there must be some interest from an international distribution company that has attended the festival but I don\u2019t know how the industry works, this is all new to us.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: About the editing process: it\u2019s a great part of the work for the film. How did you work on it?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: The method was about trying to make it not so conscious. When I work on editing I try to find this kind of trance where I can feel the flow of the images. I tried to find this level of consciousness that may be transported to the film and to the audience. Of course, it would be hypocrite to be sober and straight while working in this kind of film, especially if you want to truly express what the material is giving.<\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: We wanted everybody in the working crew to try one shot of this drug. In people\u2019s mind, when you do one shot it fucks up your life forever and, you know, this is a huge myth. And it\u2019s even repeated by people who do drugs, who are addicted to them. So we wanted everybody to try it once and so everybody in the crew did, apart from the producer. Our plan was to put drugs in his drink while he was having this cocktail party with the Finnish ambassador. We wanted to put some Subutex in his drink but it never happened because they got away. The ambassador was avoiding us like a plague. Like the jury here, they had to deal with this moral issues.<\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: They see it as immoral to give a prize to this kind of film.<\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Yeah, this kind of film made by people who somehow even embrace drug use in interviews. We had to push the other side because Finnish press wrote that the film tells about how bad drug use is.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: It\u2019s curious that the jury is embarassed. I mean the should judge it as a film…<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Exactly: they should judge the film, not the morals of the filmmakers. Of course you can say that Leni Riefenstahl made really good films and still totally disagreeing with the nazi thing. But still the films were good, they were part of cinematic arts so I think it\u2019s a problematic issue…<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Is drugs the new taboo again, according to you?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: As I said, in Finland it\u2019s always been a taboo…the \u201860s never happened and the \u201870s never happened so it\u2019s been a taboo. Even pot smoking. Drug testing is getting harsher and the isolation is becoming harsher. Because they\u2019re testing the people who work in cleaning jobs, the lowest jobs like working in supermarkets. They test people and if they find that they smoked weed in their own free time they would think: \u201cOk, this guys are drug users so let\u2019s not give them a job\u201d. And that isolates them from society. What harm could a cleaning lady do if she smokes a joint in her free time? No harm at all!
\nOf course I don\u2019t want my pilot to take LSD while is flying my plane but this is a different issue. Now they\u2019re forcing this control in all occupational areas and they make you undergo piss tests. You know, you can be a responsible person and use drugs in your personal time, whatever drug it is. I mean, beer is a dangerous drug for many people, like heroin. It\u2019s so easy to considerate it as a common enemy for the populist politics. You know: \u201cWe should think about our kids\u2026\u201d. Nobody says you should give drugs to the kids…
\nDrugs are bringing so many good things to people: pleasure, creativity, a different view of the society\u2026so many things! There is a destructive side of course, you have to akwnolodge it. If you deny the benefits of drug use, it just makes young people more interested.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: You are a photographer, right?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Yeah, well that\u2019s what I do as a hobby, that\u2019s what I\u2019ve been studying mostly.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Do you think you\u2019re going to work on another film?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Yeah, definetely. I have a couple of projects lined up. They\u2019ve been going on for several years, before this film was released. Actually I was hoping to make some other projects before this one. Something in a smaller scale.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Sadri, were you involved in the project from the beginning?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: We met before through a mutual friend but I became involved a couple of years later when he was looking for an editor. Basically he had this amount of material and had just started to put it together and he was going to India for one and a half years. So we started working together for a couple of months and I stayed in Finland to edit a first version. Then I went to India so he could say his opinion about what I had done. Then we started over again. We made probably 30 or 40 versions, different storylines, different characters. We were unable to use some characters in the film and so we had to change them. In all it took more than five years to pass from a raw state to a refined story, the actual story.
\nAt the moment when the production company got involved, we were very close to the actual version. The last year and a half was spent refining and getting presentable enough to go to the theatres.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: What kind of changes did they ask for?<\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nSadri Cetinkaya: Well, they asked us to make many kind of changes but basically we didn\u2019t do what they asked us. They asked to edit out some of the edgy stuff and they said that there were too many scenes with drug shootings. But we didn\u2019t really take in account of what the production company asked. They also tried to make us put some commercial hip-hop in it because they had some connections or bullshit like this. But we presented them with version we were at peace with.<\/span><\/p>\nLocarno \u2013 August 14, 2010<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n![\"\"](\"http:\/\/www.rapportoconfidenziale.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/10\/Joonas-Neuvonen031-e1287159149543.jpg\" "\\"Joonas")
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Intervista con il regista Joonas Neuvonen e il montatore\u00a0 Sadri Centinkaya su “Reindeerspotting – Escape from Santaland<\/a>“<\/strong>
\ndi Roberto Rippa<\/span><\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Cos\u2019\u00e8 accaduto all\u2019uscita del film in Finlandia?<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Lo hanno categorizzato come film X, cosicch\u00e9 non potesse essere visto da persone sotto i 18 anni.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Questa \u00e8 la categoria usata abitualmente per il porno…<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Si, giusto! Gli hanno attribuito la stessa classificazione dei porno.<\/span><\/p>\nSadri Centinkaya: I film sulla droga sono abitualmente vietati ai minori di 16 anni.<\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Gi\u00e0, \u201cTrainspotting\u201d era vietato ai minori di 16 anni ma forse in questo hanno visto una sorta di pornografia della siringa. Ci sono iniezioni nelle vene e un piacere che ne deriva. Forse quindi l\u2019hanno visto come pornografia.<\/span><\/p>\nSadri Centinkaya: Forse hanno trovato che lo stile di vita di Jani (il protagonista del film) fosse tanto invitante che la gente avrebbe potuto a seguirlo.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Il che sarebbe stupido dal momento che questo non accade mai nel cinema. Il cinema non ha il potere di invitare la gente a fare cose, altrimenti non ci sarebbero film con assassini protagonisti. Noi immaginiamo abitualmente la Finlandia come un Paese caratterizzato da uno spirito libero, cos\u2019\u00e8 accaduto in questo caso?<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Beh, il dipartimento della censura che classifica i film deve avere detto: \u201cQuesto \u00e8 un film che mostra le droghe in chiave positiva\u201d. Ovviamente i produttori avrebbero voluto che il film potesse essere visto dal pubblico sotto i 18 anni. Del resto, chi va a vedere i film? Si tratta di un pubblico enorme e quindi i produttori avrebbero perso soldi perch\u00e9 la gente tra i 15 anni e i 18 non avrebbe potuto vedere il film. Si tratta di una questione commerciale. Cos\u00ec hanno rivoltato la questione e hanno detto: \u201c\u00c8 un film educativo, non puoi assumere droghe\u201d. Questo ci ha seccati perch\u00e9 la nostra intenzione era quella di raccontare la storia di un individuo, non abbiamo voluto fare un film per dire: \u201cGuardate questi ragazzi, cos\u00ec \u00e8 come finirete assumendo droghe!\u201d. Ha a che fare solo con persone che hanno problemi legati alla droga e quindi non dice granch\u00e9 sulle droghe in generale. Si tratta di una storia personale che dice che non puoi fuggire dai tuoi problemi, che ovunque tu vada i tuoi problemi ti seguiranno. Cambiare se stessi \u00e8 un lavoro lungo e duro se la necessit\u00e0 di farlo viene da dentro.
\nHo veramente odiato il momento in cui tentavano di spacciarlo per un film educativo che dicesse: \u201cNo, non assumere droghe\u201d e tutte queste cazzate.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Quando ho visto il film, non l\u2019ho recepito cos\u00ec. Il film non presenta una visione positiva delle droghe ma nemmeno una negativa. \u00c8 solo una storia personale e questo \u00e8 l\u2019unica chiave per vedere il film. Non ce n\u2019\u00e8 un\u2019altra.<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Si. Il discorso relativo alle droghe \u00e8 molto delicato in Finlandia. Gli anni \u201960 non sono mai arrivati in Finlandia. Il movimento hippy non \u00e8 mai arrivato in Finlandia e quindi le droghe sono sempre state considerate in modo negativo. Ogni tipo di droga, intendo. E anche ogni consumatore \u00e8 visto in chiave negativa. Quindi ho voluto mostrare i consumatori di droghe in modo umano, da tutte le angolazioni possibili. Non solo i lati negativi o quelli positivi, ma come esseri umani tridimensionali.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: E questa \u00e8 la parte difficile per un film. Ho sentito che sono stati necessari pi\u00f9 di cinque anni per girare il film.<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Girarlo \u00e8 stata la parte pi\u00f9 semplice del processo. Avevo la mia videocamera ed ero parte del gruppo che filmavo. Mi drogavo anch\u2019io e ho filmato per mesi e mesi. Il 90% del film \u00e8 stato girato in sei mesi, ma non c\u2019era una storia vera e propria. Nulla era pianificato, tutto accadeva semplicemente. In certi giorni, quando ero sotto anfetamine pensavo: \u201cBene, facciamone una serie televisiva composta di episodi dalla durata di cinque minuti\u201d. Come per YouTube, voglio dire. In altri giorni pensavo di fare una serie pi\u00f9 lunga. La realt\u00e0 \u00e8 cambiata molto nel corso del processo. Praticamente, ho filmato, filmato e filmato, e poi ci siamo messi a guardare il girato e c\u2019erano centinaia e centinaia di ore. Quindi ci siamo messi a pensare io e lui (il montatore Sadri Cetinkaya) su che tipo di film avremmo potuto fare. Ed \u00e8 stato chiaro che sarebbe stato un vero film. Non ci era chiaro che tipo di puzzle sarebbe stato quello giusto fare. Il lavoro ci ha preso molto tempo e non avevamo fondi di alcun tipo. L\u2019organizzazione che mi aveva dato le videocamere all\u2019inizio me le ha tolte appena ha visto cosa stavo facendo, dicendo: \u201cNon puoi mostrare questo genere di cose\u201d. Poi la polizia mi ha sequestrato alcuni nastri e li ha distrutti. Hanno anche pensato che le videocamere fossero frutto di furti. Quindi abbiamo avuto parecchi problemi. Come puoi ottenere finanziamenti quando l\u2019unica cosa che hai \u00e8 un\u2019idea, ma non hai una formazione legata al cinema? Il sistema di finanziamento si basa fortemente sull\u2019essere professionisti e avere alle spalle un\u2019istruzione. Ora, dopo questo film, stanno cambiando il sistema per rendere possibile il finanziamento a piccoli progetti. E questa \u00e8 una buona cosa.<\/span><\/p>\nRoberto Rippa: Il film \u00e8 stato un successo commerciale in Finlandia, vero?<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\nJoonas Neuvonen: Si, \u00e8 stato davvero un successo enorme.<\/span><\/p>\n
![\"\"](\"http:\/\/www.rapportoconfidenziale.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/10\/Joonas-Neuvonen.jpg\" "\\"Joonas")
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